I am one of those who subscribed because of your Quince post, but for none of the reasons you listed. I love Quince and would say it makes up a solid quarter of my wardrobe! I subscribed because I saw your take, disagreed with it, but loved the way it made me think critically about the brand. I didn't think of you as a hater! More of a sartorial philosopher, and honestly that's what I want my Substack to be :) Deep thoughts about niche interests. Keep it up, I'm totally in.
Devon, I feel like you just blew my brain off with the ending here. The way we- as consumers- conflate the brands we wear with our own identity is so real. There are influencers who have attached their names to certain brands (I’m thinking The Row, Khaite, Toteme) and, I think, it’s because they want to embody what they think the brand embodies. I’ve seen people take critiques of The Row very personally when it’s not that deep at all. I want to sit and discuss all of this with you because my mind is turning now!!
I’m not above it- at all. Liana from Neverworn talked about Label Dickmitization- the idea that we buy something for the label- and I’m so guilty of this. I think owning something from a brand says something who I am (which is sort of crazy, no?)
FWIW: I also think your Quince piece drove so much traffic because it was really well researched AND you touched down on the reminders we need as consumers around walking away from the idea of a timeless item.
I am dying at "Label Dickmitization". Truly perfect. And I’m right there with you: guilty as charged! It is just a reality of our world that we all attach ourselves to labels. But I hope that we can (at least at times) consciously step outside of that, too
I totally think we'd have A LOT to talk about. I'm sure we'll get the chance someday :)
NAILED IT. this is so accurate. The idea of our selves in relation to the value of a brand is honest and depressing. In the age of having to pick the lesser evil to provide the most basic needs we all need to step back and remeber these brand are working for us, not the other way around.
This is such a good point, and something I think about a lot. It seems like we often act like brands are doing things *to us*. Making us feel less than. Making us follow trends. Making us buy.
The expectation outside of fashion is that companies need to "earn" our business with a great product and supportive service. But inside fashion (and other consumer goods verticals, probably) we have no choice but to continually swallow something we seemingly hate? I think we as consumers leave so much unclaimed power on the table. But the kicker is: if nobody is "earning" our business properly, we've got to stop buying! Or at least, minimize and spend our precious discretionary dollars elsewhere.
Also here from the Quince post, but not as a Quince customer, moreso as a skeptic of any brand that seems to emerge out of nowhere and suddenly have all this hype around them. Maybe I'm a hater too?
I really appreciated footnote number 3. I struggle with black-and-white thinking, so once I learn something about a company (like how all the anthro/uo/free people companies rip off designers and artists as their MO), it's really difficult for me to not share that info anytime they come up. My intention can get mixed up with that sneaky "being one of the good ones" goal that I'm trying to de-program myself from, but also comes from a place of wanting to protect artists and steer people away from predatory capitalists and towards local makers/resources.
As I switched out my winter and summer wardrobes this week, I saw a few pieces from 10ish years ago when I shopped the anthro sales rack religiously. It's a good reminder that knowing more doesn't de-value how that functioned as a resource in the past. I really appreciate the reminder to push back on how closely we identify with brands - whether that's to shame ourselves/others or to defend ourselves/others.
YES! Fashion can be such a fun and creative thing, and nobody wants to feel like the killjoy. But we've got to talk about this stuff!!! I'm so interested in us figuring out a way to do that without feeling forced into the position of giving like, Debbie Downer from SNL energy.
Hello, fellow footnote number 3 appreciator! 😉 I too wish I knew how to talk to people about frankly bad brands and corporations without coming across as sanctimonious…
Ok-- I'm a Quince post subscriber as well. Thank you for the history and perspective.
That said, this post's title got me. I fear I'm a hater more than I'm not. For instance, have you seen the Prison Edit at Target this season? Full, heavy button-up jumpsuits and pinstriped sets that give Alcatraz. What is even happening?
I really enjoyed this one and am now reflecting on how personal to me the brands I shop feel. I'm also noticing that pieces I'm more emotionally tied to feel more personal - for example the shitty t-shirt from Zara that I kind of hate - don't care. Whereas the pants from COS that I LOVE and make me feel great? Pretty personal!
Either way, thanks for your take, and for being a complex human (like we all are) ♥️
I will definitely be thinking about, “Add to Cart, Add to Self”. Damn! Great essay. I think the jump from “I know her” to “I am her” is getting smaller and smaller.
Definitely not a hater! No brand is perfect and it's an impossible feat to be a perfect shopper. I see the same things after a career in corporate fashion and appreciate you sharing the positives and negatives (and find myself nodding along to everything that you write).
You've packed a lot of thought into a short post. I'll add that I think it's not just that people view brands as conferring certain traits on themselves (or manifesting traits they already have), but they also actually start to believe that they are a part of the brand. In other words, a well-propagandized Quince customer doesn't just gain a sense of sophistication or elevation (or whatever buzzword is popular) from Quince, she actually believes that she is a Quince girl. She both internalizes AND — through wearing the clothes, existing in public, and perhaps posting on social media — externalizes the brand.
I think this results in two different reactions to criticism of the company. There's a primary adverse reaction because such criticism cuts off the flow of benefits (e.g. character traits, style) that the brand claims to offer. It makes the consumer void of the personality they were trying to buy. The second reaction is when critique of the company transmogrifies into a personal attack on the consumer, who sees themselves as a prophet (or agent/spokesperson/influencer) of the brand. If I think the company is unethical, exploitative, or bad for the environment, I've now accused the consumer of promoting those values. It's not a result of my attack being personal, it's a result of companies using consumers to promote the product (whether through social media or word of mouth).
TL;DR: I totally agree that the conflation of consumer and company helps explain why people take it so personally when you criticize brands they like.
You’ve said a lot of what I was thinking and heard about Quince!
Also hating is good. Hating means you care! Hating is how we hold the industry accountable. So much stuff is harmful and made in polyester low production and tricks shoppers — thoughtful “hating”is good.
Yes please, let’s talk more about how modern brands purposely set out to—and thrive on—us conflating their brand image with our self-image! These brands don’t care about you, baby!!
I am one of those who subscribed because of your Quince post, but for none of the reasons you listed. I love Quince and would say it makes up a solid quarter of my wardrobe! I subscribed because I saw your take, disagreed with it, but loved the way it made me think critically about the brand. I didn't think of you as a hater! More of a sartorial philosopher, and honestly that's what I want my Substack to be :) Deep thoughts about niche interests. Keep it up, I'm totally in.
Okay well “sartorial philosopher” might be my favorite way I've ever been described! Made my day. Thanks for being here.
Devon, I feel like you just blew my brain off with the ending here. The way we- as consumers- conflate the brands we wear with our own identity is so real. There are influencers who have attached their names to certain brands (I’m thinking The Row, Khaite, Toteme) and, I think, it’s because they want to embody what they think the brand embodies. I’ve seen people take critiques of The Row very personally when it’s not that deep at all. I want to sit and discuss all of this with you because my mind is turning now!!
I’m not above it- at all. Liana from Neverworn talked about Label Dickmitization- the idea that we buy something for the label- and I’m so guilty of this. I think owning something from a brand says something who I am (which is sort of crazy, no?)
FWIW: I also think your Quince piece drove so much traffic because it was really well researched AND you touched down on the reminders we need as consumers around walking away from the idea of a timeless item.
I am dying at "Label Dickmitization". Truly perfect. And I’m right there with you: guilty as charged! It is just a reality of our world that we all attach ourselves to labels. But I hope that we can (at least at times) consciously step outside of that, too
I totally think we'd have A LOT to talk about. I'm sure we'll get the chance someday :)
Never apologize for asking people to think critically. If it makes them mad, they should draw a circle around themselves and fix what’s in it!
Lmao. I feel this so much. At a certain point, it really does say more about them than it does about you.
NAILED IT. this is so accurate. The idea of our selves in relation to the value of a brand is honest and depressing. In the age of having to pick the lesser evil to provide the most basic needs we all need to step back and remeber these brand are working for us, not the other way around.
This is such a good point, and something I think about a lot. It seems like we often act like brands are doing things *to us*. Making us feel less than. Making us follow trends. Making us buy.
The expectation outside of fashion is that companies need to "earn" our business with a great product and supportive service. But inside fashion (and other consumer goods verticals, probably) we have no choice but to continually swallow something we seemingly hate? I think we as consumers leave so much unclaimed power on the table. But the kicker is: if nobody is "earning" our business properly, we've got to stop buying! Or at least, minimize and spend our precious discretionary dollars elsewhere.
Also here from the Quince post, but not as a Quince customer, moreso as a skeptic of any brand that seems to emerge out of nowhere and suddenly have all this hype around them. Maybe I'm a hater too?
I really appreciated footnote number 3. I struggle with black-and-white thinking, so once I learn something about a company (like how all the anthro/uo/free people companies rip off designers and artists as their MO), it's really difficult for me to not share that info anytime they come up. My intention can get mixed up with that sneaky "being one of the good ones" goal that I'm trying to de-program myself from, but also comes from a place of wanting to protect artists and steer people away from predatory capitalists and towards local makers/resources.
As I switched out my winter and summer wardrobes this week, I saw a few pieces from 10ish years ago when I shopped the anthro sales rack religiously. It's a good reminder that knowing more doesn't de-value how that functioned as a resource in the past. I really appreciate the reminder to push back on how closely we identify with brands - whether that's to shame ourselves/others or to defend ourselves/others.
YES! Fashion can be such a fun and creative thing, and nobody wants to feel like the killjoy. But we've got to talk about this stuff!!! I'm so interested in us figuring out a way to do that without feeling forced into the position of giving like, Debbie Downer from SNL energy.
Hello, fellow footnote number 3 appreciator! 😉 I too wish I knew how to talk to people about frankly bad brands and corporations without coming across as sanctimonious…
Ok-- I'm a Quince post subscriber as well. Thank you for the history and perspective.
That said, this post's title got me. I fear I'm a hater more than I'm not. For instance, have you seen the Prison Edit at Target this season? Full, heavy button-up jumpsuits and pinstriped sets that give Alcatraz. What is even happening?
Wow am I blessed to say that this one has not come across my feed. Yet. It all reaches us eventually haha.
I really enjoyed this one and am now reflecting on how personal to me the brands I shop feel. I'm also noticing that pieces I'm more emotionally tied to feel more personal - for example the shitty t-shirt from Zara that I kind of hate - don't care. Whereas the pants from COS that I LOVE and make me feel great? Pretty personal!
Either way, thanks for your take, and for being a complex human (like we all are) ♥️
I will definitely be thinking about, “Add to Cart, Add to Self”. Damn! Great essay. I think the jump from “I know her” to “I am her” is getting smaller and smaller.
So eloquently said!
another really good, thoughtful essay.
Thank you, Susan! It means a lot.
Definitely not a hater! No brand is perfect and it's an impossible feat to be a perfect shopper. I see the same things after a career in corporate fashion and appreciate you sharing the positives and negatives (and find myself nodding along to everything that you write).
You've packed a lot of thought into a short post. I'll add that I think it's not just that people view brands as conferring certain traits on themselves (or manifesting traits they already have), but they also actually start to believe that they are a part of the brand. In other words, a well-propagandized Quince customer doesn't just gain a sense of sophistication or elevation (or whatever buzzword is popular) from Quince, she actually believes that she is a Quince girl. She both internalizes AND — through wearing the clothes, existing in public, and perhaps posting on social media — externalizes the brand.
I think this results in two different reactions to criticism of the company. There's a primary adverse reaction because such criticism cuts off the flow of benefits (e.g. character traits, style) that the brand claims to offer. It makes the consumer void of the personality they were trying to buy. The second reaction is when critique of the company transmogrifies into a personal attack on the consumer, who sees themselves as a prophet (or agent/spokesperson/influencer) of the brand. If I think the company is unethical, exploitative, or bad for the environment, I've now accused the consumer of promoting those values. It's not a result of my attack being personal, it's a result of companies using consumers to promote the product (whether through social media or word of mouth).
TL;DR: I totally agree that the conflation of consumer and company helps explain why people take it so personally when you criticize brands they like.
You’ve said a lot of what I was thinking and heard about Quince!
Also hating is good. Hating means you care! Hating is how we hold the industry accountable. So much stuff is harmful and made in polyester low production and tricks shoppers — thoughtful “hating”is good.
Yes please, let’s talk more about how modern brands purposely set out to—and thrive on—us conflating their brand image with our self-image! These brands don’t care about you, baby!!